taking the mark in other earth (major spoiler warning)

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Permalink Reply by Jonah Ullman on November 9, 2009 at 9:32pm

since in the other world things are more physical, i think that once you drown, anything that you did with your past self doesnt matter the least bit. your basicaly dying and being reborn physicaly as aposed to our world where its all in the mind. a mark is just a mark wether you actualy make it something special or not. hope this helps.. personaly, Tanis getting saved was the best and worst thing of the book. im totaly happy that he finaly turned back, but i am SOO dissapointed on how ted did it.. i was looking forward to a whole chapter on Qurong's drowning and all he gave us was a couple sentences.. the series was too good to rush!! why did you do it ted !!

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Permalink Reply by 30N 3NN1X on November 9, 2009 at 9:46pm

this was the main thing that bothered me the most about the book.
i couldn't really look beyond this part.
i'm just kind of weirded out about something this contrary to Scripture being in it.

i saw someone else on another post saying that the circle series is supposed to be a parallel or allegory for the millenial reign time period.
i had never heard that theory before, but it certainly put everything in a whole different perspective for me when looking back on it.

but even still, taking the mark and accepting the equivalent of satan as your "g"od, regardless if it was before or during the millenial reign, seems like quite a choice of finality to me.

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Permalink Reply by Smoore on November 10, 2009 at 12:03pm

The Circle books can't be an allegory for the Millennial Kingdom. I can explain if you want, but it is impossible to fit them into the Bible story anywhere. If you've read the Lord of the Rings series, they are presented as sort of an alternate history of our world. I haven't read the whole of The Silmarillion yet, but it could be seen as a completely different version of our planet's history.

I had forgotten about the mark, but that is a very good point. Revelation is clear that willfully taking the mark is final. Qurong should not have been saved because of it. Thanks for bringing that up, 30N 3NN1X, because it is a very good point.

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Permalink Reply by SuperYoutubeUser on November 10, 2009 at 12:15pm

Well... Adam and Eve are who Tenees represent, and I'm pretty shure they're in heaven, so it would make sense. People who aren't Christians, no matter the circumstance, can still become Christians

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Permalink Reply by Jonah Ullman on November 10, 2009 at 2:15pm

remember, there were no "Christians" before Jesus's death, the way people followed God was by their works. they would go to a priest and sacrifice a lamb for their sins. Now our faith is just by faith, not works. although we show our faith by works, it is the faith that saves us. sry, lol, just getting that streight.

Mckenna Scott Hampton said:

Well... Adam and Eve are who Tenees represent, and I'm pretty shure they're in heaven, so it would make sense. People who aren't Christians, no matter the circumstance, can still become Christians

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Permalink Reply by Josh Shearer on November 10, 2009 at 3:02pm

Eh...who's Tenees?

Mckenna Scott Hampton said:

Well... Adam and Eve are who Tenees represent, and I'm pretty shure they're in heaven, so it would make sense. People who aren't Christians, no matter the circumstance, can still become Christians

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Permalink Reply by Rebekah on November 10, 2009 at 7:51pm

I think that Mckenna meant Tanis.

Josh Shearer said:

Eh...who's Tenees?

Mckenna Scott Hampton said:

Well... Adam and Eve are who Tenees represent, and I'm pretty shure they're in heaven, so it would make sense. People who aren't Christians, no matter the circumstance, can still become Christians

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Permalink Reply by 30N 3NN1X on November 10, 2009 at 8:58pm

thanx for your input guys.
i was Hoping others would have something to say about this part as well.
: )

i could deal with the whole samuel thing fine, i wasn't expecting a Happy ending with either samuel or qurong.
when it comes to the Judgment of God, it's not all roses and Happy outcomes for those who choose the enemy over the Lord.

i just don't understand why/how tanis/qurong got off the hook.
that was a little bit confusing.
my only conclusive idea as to why ted did this, is that since tanis started all this trouble by taking the fruit from teeleh back in "black", in order to come "full circle" tanis would have to get Saved, but this could have been done without him having taken the mark and making that final choice to have teeleh as his "g"od.

that's my opinion though.

p.s. wasn't the Faith of the Patriarch's counted to them as Righteousness as well?

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Permalink Reply by Saxsoon on November 10, 2009 at 10:35pm

I disagree and it doesn't necessarily have to match up with the Bible. I think this was a millennial kingdom of sorts, even though it was not exactly biblical. In the end of days, people will turn against God, and I think the scabs were those people. Either that, or the albinos who became scabs.

What verse says the mark is final? I am just curious because I don't remember that.

Smoore said:

The Circle books can't be an allegory for the Millennial Kingdom. I can explain if you want, but it is impossible to fit them into the Bible story anywhere. If you've read the Lord of the Rings series, they are presented as sort of an alternate history of our world. I haven't read the whole of The Silmarillion yet, but it could be seen as a completely different version of our planet's history.

I had forgotten about the mark, but that is a very good point. Revelation is clear that willfully taking the mark is final. Qurong should not have been saved because of it. Thanks for bringing that up, 30N 3NN1X, because it is a very good point.

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Permalink Reply by Jonah Ullman on November 11, 2009 at 2:23pm

i mean for goodness sake he had better have saved tanis, i mean common, he chopped off Chelsea's head, killed samuel, and left thomas in the dust. he had better have saved Tanis through all that...

30N 3NN1X said:

thanx for your input guys.
i was Hoping others would have something to say about this part as well.
: )

i could deal with the whole samuel thing fine, i wasn't expecting a Happy ending with either samuel or qurong.
when it comes to the Judgment of God, it's not all roses and Happy outcomes for those who choose the enemy over the Lord.

i just don't understand why/how tanis/qurong got off the hook.
that was a little bit confusing.
my only conclusive idea as to why ted did this, is that since tanis started all this trouble by taking the fruit from teeleh back in "black", in order to come "full circle" tanis would have to get Saved, but this could have been done without him having taken the mark and making that final choice to have teeleh as his "g"od.

that's my opinion though.

p.s. wasn't the Faith of the Patriarch's counted to them as Righteousness as well?

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Permalink Reply by 30N 3NN1X on November 11, 2009 at 5:41pm

saxsoon in reply to your scripture question on the mark being final.

Revelation 14:9-13

9Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,
10he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.

11"And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

12Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

13And I heard a voice from heaven, saying, "Write, 'Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on!'" "Yes," says the Spirit, "so that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow with them."



i understand that it doesn't have to match up with scripture exactly, it is afterall a piece of fiction.
(and what follows is my personal view on this whether or not others Agree with this view is their choice.)
but when something is written from an allegorical perspective, as this clearly was, it's a bit disturbing and/or confusing when it starts going contrary to Biblical Doctrine.
regardless if the events are word for word a scriptural parallel.

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Permalink Reply by Smoore on November 11, 2009 at 6:41pm

Yeah, in addition to what 30N posted about the Mark of the Beast, there are a host of reasons why this cannot be the Millennial Kingdom.

The Tribulation is about the Jews. Christ will return for the Christians before it begins, and then the next seven years are about redeeming the Jews, fulfilling both Old and New Testament prophecies. Some Gentiles will probably be saved, just like they were saved before Christ came, but we are not the focus any longer. God set the nation of Israel aside for a time to work through the Church, and when the time comes, He will call the Bride home and work to restore His people to Himself—and also to judge everyone who hates Him.

After the Tribulation, Christ will come down to reign on earth in bodily form for one thousand years. During this time, Satan and his angels will be bound (I believe in Hades). All of the saints who have passed away prior to this point will be resurrected with new bodies and rule with Christ, and those who survived the Tribulation will continue living in their natural bodies. They will be saved, but their children will still be born under the curse. There will still be sin in the world, even though the government and the King will be perfect. People born during this time will still have to decide on their own who to follow—themselves or Christ. After one thousand years, Satan will be released, and he will rally all the unbelievers to fight against Jesus. Then he and all sinners, and Death and Hades, and all the evil angels will be thrown into hell for all eternity. God will create a new heaven and new earth, and we will live forever with Him.

This follows the progressive revelation, or dispensational, model of the Bible. It is one of the two most prominent views on Scripture, the Church, Israel, and salvation today. It says that while salvation has always been by grace through faith, which is a gift from God, God has gradually increased the specific knowledge about this and about Himself over the generations.

This site describes what are most often accepted as the seven dispensations, although really ambitious scholars have come up with a lot more than seven. At each dispensation, we see both an increase in what God reveals of Himself and an increase of specifics in how to "get right" with God.

So the little history lesson was probably unnecessary, but I'm just explaining the Scripture validation for what I said about Israel, etc., in case you are unfamiliar with this doctrine or were taught something else (such as covenantal theology). In the Circle books, everything starts over with a completely new Adam and Eve. Humans are back at the innocence stage of history. Jesus is nowhere to be seen (at least in the sense of a king). The world is completely different, even though the world Christ will rule will be this one as it is when He comes (although there is something about leveling the mountains and islands, so that would change the geography a lot). But humans during the Millennial Kingdom will know more about God than we know today. We have the Old and New Testament, the complete word of God, perfect in its original form and remarkably well copied and translated since then. But during the Kingdom, we will have the incarnate Word of God living among us. This isn't what we see in Other Earth.

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