The Circle/A Ted Dekker Community
The official online community of New York Times best-selling author Ted Dekker.
When America Fails...
...And the nation you live in adopts a foreign, religious law... Does not protect those who seek protection... Refuses to act when it matters most...
This discussion, while spurred by the issue of Rifqa Bary, is not solely about her-- That discussion can be found HERE. Rather, this is meant to discuss the prevailing mindset behind the decision to send her back to Ohio and the appropriate response to that mindset, and others like it.
What should we do, first as Christians, then as Americans, when out justice system backs the very radicalism we supposedly are opposing?
It is not just Rifqa Barry. There have been countless others who sought protection through our legal system, our Constitution, and our government. In response, most of these people, the majority women, have been placed BACK into potentially dangerous situations without so much as a backwards glance.
Most of them have wound up dead.
With this in mind, what do we do? What can we do? Is there anything we can do in addition to prayer?
What seems to be happening here is a lack of desire or motivation to address anything that is wrong. You hit your wife? That's absolutely out of the question-- Unless your wacko religion allows it, AND you are not white. Then, we'll just turn our heads.
Is this yet another form of the wussification of America?
Martin Luther King Jr. advocated rebellion, peaceful rebellion, in the face of massive injustice. Is such a rebellion needed today? How many issues could be brought to national awareness with such action?
Malcolm X is reported to have said at one time that we should do our best to live at peace with our fellow man, but if he strikes us, we must strike back. Is a more forceful demonstration needed to wake America from it's ever deepening Sissy-hood?
As Christians, however, are there any issues with protesting, rebelling or striking out? The Bible tells us to obey the government, except when it crosses the law of God. Has it yet? What is the line? Where does it lie, and just how many would be willing to take action once that happens?
Anyhow-- My opening monologue is done. Floor's open.
This discussion, while spurred by the issue of Rifqa Bary, is not solely about her-- That discussion can be found HERE. Rather, this is meant to discuss the prevailing mindset behind the decision to send her back to Ohio and the appropriate response to that mindset, and others like it.
What should we do, first as Christians, then as Americans, when out justice system backs the very radicalism we supposedly are opposing?
It is not just Rifqa Barry. There have been countless others who sought protection through our legal system, our Constitution, and our government. In response, most of these people, the majority women, have been placed BACK into potentially dangerous situations without so much as a backwards glance.
Most of them have wound up dead.
With this in mind, what do we do? What can we do? Is there anything we can do in addition to prayer?
What seems to be happening here is a lack of desire or motivation to address anything that is wrong. You hit your wife? That's absolutely out of the question-- Unless your wacko religion allows it, AND you are not white. Then, we'll just turn our heads.
Is this yet another form of the wussification of America?
Martin Luther King Jr. advocated rebellion, peaceful rebellion, in the face of massive injustice. Is such a rebellion needed today? How many issues could be brought to national awareness with such action?
Malcolm X is reported to have said at one time that we should do our best to live at peace with our fellow man, but if he strikes us, we must strike back. Is a more forceful demonstration needed to wake America from it's ever deepening Sissy-hood?
As Christians, however, are there any issues with protesting, rebelling or striking out? The Bible tells us to obey the government, except when it crosses the law of God. Has it yet? What is the line? Where does it lie, and just how many would be willing to take action once that happens?
Anyhow-- My opening monologue is done. Floor's open.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Cassondra on -
I dunno... the actions (Dred Scott and Rifqa Bary being returned to slavery) may be the same but the motives behind the actions are different. Not that either action is right or was motivated by good things, but never before have Christians kowtowed to another religion like they are doing now. Never before has America kowtowed to a religion like this. (Though I'm not counting the Salem Witch Trials, still, that was 400 years ago). Still, such a thing happening in the modern era is...a sign of our society's degradation, IMO.
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Permalink Reply by Deb on -
I should have been clearer - I wasn't thinking of the future murder victims - I was thinking of the people you want to lobby in order to protect the believers from other cultures and remember they would not be the first to be murder in Christ's name. Now don't jump all over me, I am not advocating a 'let's do nothing attitude'.
Are there Christians who can just take Rifqua and either house her in a safe house or arrange for her to escape the province? Christians, not governments.
In my first reply I was pointing to the fact that the people who we want to trust to do something in order to protect these believers need to be prayed for - they will not see God's kingdom with blind eyes.
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Permalink Reply by Cassondra on
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Deb--I can see what you're saying in that the Church has, unfortunately, let some of its duties fall to the government. Such as welfare. Instead of the church providing for the poor, we let the government do it. However, as Rifqa is under 18, any Christians who did take her in would be guilty of kidnapping by the government's standard.
I also understand what you're saying about changing the hearts and minds of those who, currently, do Satan's work. If they were saved, then they would want to do God's will, and there wouldn't be any problems, anyway. That's why I pray for God to "bless everyone in the world and give them all what You know they truly Need" because the first thing they would need was Jesus.
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Permalink Reply by RETS on -
That I agree with Deb-- I'm sorry for misunderstanding you.
In Rifqa's case, that's already been tried. Now the pastor and his family are being investigated for a number of things, such as molestation, child abuse, etc. All those wonderful things meant to ruin a person's reputation. The pastor issued a statement that he welcomes the investigation, because he has nothing to hide, and because the government is going to come away from it with egg on it's face.
However, in the cases of others, the point that I'm making is that by OUR LAW, they should have been granted protection. Instead, there was an abortion of justice, allowing the object of their fear to walk free or unfettered. In the case of one woman, she had a restraining order on her husband, and a few cops allowed him to force her into a vehicle. Why? They didn't want to appear racist. She was later found beheaded.
'Dox, your comparing Dred Scott with this subject is ridiculously out of line... Or so it appears to me. Maybe I'm just misunderstanding what you're saying. Care to explain your reasoning a bit more?
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Permalink Reply by Deb on
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Being politically correct and tolerant of all is bearing fruit it seems. This is not directed toward the church - it is meant for the governments and think tanks that fill universities across the world and leave Jesus out of their theories. The sixties re-visited under a new name and even the sixties were not doing 'a new' thing.
I am glad this Pastor is taking a stand. May Jesus be glorified.
Rets do you have any solid actions you may be thinking of that could help the miscarriage of justice of a countries laws? I know one thing in our country is our laws against child abuse and yet children are continually left in homes or the system is too busy to help most of them. I have no answer other than praying for our bold witness and acting in a boldly manner.
Peoples dead hearts need to be awakened by God and I think it isn't so much that this life will be nirvana, it is to get as many into the next as possible.
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Permalink Reply by living sacrifice on -
Honestly I was totally on Rifqa's side until I saw the video of that interview. It didn't feel genuine to me at all, and many times I can trust that instinct. Personally, I think she may have just wanted attention and she took advantage of the fact that this pastor's family was willing to help her. If she felt she was in danger, why didn't she just go to the police? The fact that she ran away to Florida makes me wonder.
And another thing, I don't know who she was holding onto in that video, but it looked kind of bad. As someone who has grown up in ministry I know that pastors and church leaders have to take the utmost care in being above reproach and making sure they don't leave any opportunity for false accusation.
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Permalink Reply by RETS on
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If you are talking about the video of her in court, the woman she's holding onto was the court appointed guardian after she was removed from her friends in the church.
AS to why she didn't go to the police, very often in cases like this, the person against which this accusation is being made appears to be an upstanding member of society. They have to be, otherwise it would be easy for others to believe a story about a double life.
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